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The Produnova vault - should it be banned?

Elena Produnova - one of the most beautiful and powerful gymnasts ever

There is a lot of discussion about this at the moment and I felt moved to add this blog's voice to the rising tide of opinion.

The vault you can see below (a) should not be banned as it is exciting, innovative and beautiful.

Vault (a)


But the vault below (b) should receive a zero, leaving the coach and gymnast effectively disqualified from the running for team, all around and apparatus finals.  While you might argue that the gymnast nominally lands with her feet on the ground, she can't sustain the landing and her weight is taken by back, head, neck and several other body parts.  Surely common sense dictates a zero score.  You can argue, if you like, that common sense shouldn't come into judging, but surely it is not too much to expect judges to make judgements.  Or perhaps a minor change to the wording of the Code if Points is required to make this more comfortable for them.

Vault (b)


We should not deprive the sport of the rare sight of a fantastic, elevated Produnova vault just because vault judges are not making the right decisions, leaving gymnasts being rewarded for risking their lives for a high D score.

Please discuss.

Comments

  1. To be honest, I don't think it should be banned. I'm just surprised that some of the coaches let their gymnasts perform it in competition, without being able to be even close to stick. Some gymnasts attempt to land it to get a high score, but it doesn't really matter that the vault has a 7.0 difficulty! If you fail to compete this vault cleanly, you will not even get a 15, let alone a 16. It doesn't make sense to me. Pena Abrau keeps performing the Produnova, but she can barely land it (she usually doesn't at all) and it just wasn't worth it. You can score more when you perform a DTY, even 1.5 Yurchenko, which may be simple (comparing to double front), but you don't have this huge additional risk and you can easily get a nice score, maybe not a 15, but still more than for a bad Prodonova.

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  2. I agree - my feeling is that the Produnova should not be banned. Elena proved that it can be done very well and safely (on the old horse no less) and it is an incredibly exciting vault pushing the boundaries of women's gymnastics.

    However, it is the responsibility of the gymnast, coach, federation (and parents/guardian) to ensure that any skill a gymnast is competing they are fully prepared for and able to perform safely. It is a very sad state of affairs that some gymnasts are (a) not being protected and (b) being rewarded by the current FIG rules for this. It is clear that the FIG have needed to step in urgently for a while now before something catastrophic happens.

    It would be a shame to ban it, but the situation is now so terrifying that if this is what it takes then so be it....though if this is the decision then please FIG do it now, do not wait for something terrible to happen. If it is not to be banned then a drastic and urgent rule change is needed by the FIG to stop this dangerous vaulting being rewarded and therefore continued.

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  3. All of gymnastics carries risk of injury. I am a proponent of banning rollout skills because it is inherently risky for serious head and neck injuries. However, if the handspring double front is done properly it is not significantly risky for spinal injuries.

    The FIG should create a Safety Committee that monitors FIG sanctioned events. If a gymnasts repeatedly competes a skill at multiple events that a gymnast is clearly not safely doing the Safety Committee could issue warnings to the Federation, coach and athlete. If the gymnasts continues to compete the skill, then they should issue some type of penalty.

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  4. Am I the only one who's still waiting for Produnova to teach this vault to the next generation of Russian gymnasts? Can she even teach it? And what happened to her? Is she still in Russia? Please don't tell she went somewhere else.

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    1. Here is the latest on Elena - http://rewritingrussiangymnastics.blogspot.co.uk/2013/08/the-state-of-russian-gymnastics-elena.html

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    2. Just because Elena did the vault doesn't necessarily mean she can 'teach' it to anyone who asks her! I expect there are a number of gymnasts who could do this vault, but it's just not generally worth training because it requires learning a new technique which can't really be built on - it's a sort of all-or-nothing. If you're working yurchenkos, or twisting handspring vaults, then you start with an easy one and work your way up to a higher tariff. With the Produnova though there isn't that much of a progression, you just have to do it and if you spend time training it unsuccessfully then that time's been wasted. It's only really worth doing if you're certain you can get it (which not many people are!) or if you have nothing to lose like the girls from smaller federations. The fact that it's so common in MAG suggests that the girls will get there, but it would take a few game-changing individuals.

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    3. Here is what coach Vladimir Zaglada has to say about coaching the vault - from my Facebook page ... Thanks Queen! I was quiet for a long time by reason. But your post kicked me hard! That's why I am saying: Absolutely NOT, NOT, NOT possible to sacrifice anything in order to get D score ! Shortly: Produnova's VT was performed on highest level of technique. This VT is really can be highly evaluated by judges. The Gymnasts from Egypt... It is really hard to judge! From my point of view the coach not suppose to jump after this kind of "successful" attempt !!! He can jump only because she fortunately didn't landed bad !!! This execution of Produnova's VT is absolutely WRONG version of the development of this structural group of Vt !!! Moreover this version is extremely dangerous!!! The progression for this VT must be very consistent: before coach allowed gymnast to make Produnova's VT gymnast must perform a tons of tests making over-rotated, very powerful regular saltos, saltos with extremely powerful kick-out and other technical additions which parameters will purely indicate that EXECUTION OF THE VT WILL BE 100% safe!!! Then it must be coach's decision is it possible to get it done on competitions. Then... Then ... a lot of THEN... WOW! Coach can see a reliable and safe execution and after hat he can move his gymnast on podium! That's my vision and reaction particularly on Queen's post. In case someone would like to know my opinion about future Development of the Difficulty in Artistic Gymnastics, please read my "One Coach's Journey from East to West...." at www.coachzaglada.com

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  5. She is in Russia - I am not sure she coaches, however.

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  6. I basically agree with all of the above : every acorbatic skill opens the door for injuries, it's up to the gymnasts, coaches and everyone else involved to chose to perform a safer skill over a riskier one.

    As for the scoring : the Egyptian gymnast we can see on the second video gets more than 2 points deducted off her E score, which should tell her something : is it really worth the risk ? and would a world championships/olympics panel give her the same kind of score ? I don't think so.

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    1. Except they do hand out these scores at that level. Fadwa crashed this vault at Worlds in qualifying and she got 14.556. Abreu landed the same as Fadwa does here and did a somersault on the mat and got still received 14.900 in Antwerp qualifications. I didn't even watch her vault in event finals.

      A 14.900 is good DTY (9.1 execution with slight issues on block, in air and on landing). A ridiculously unsafe vault should receive a 0 for scoring and the federation and gymnast should be prohibited from attending FIG events for 1 year (if a track record of failing to hit the dangerous skill/vault in competition is established, and they receive a warning).

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  7. Seriously, I am really SICK of that stupid and pointless debate about the Produnova vault. Yes it can be dangerous, but everything can be dangerous in gymnastics. I don't remember of any gymnast seriously injured after crashing a Produnova, is there any ?
    But on the other hand, how many gymnasts broke their neck doing a double front on the floor ? And how many broke their knees with twists or with the Amanar vault ?
    I am sure all of us here know at least one person who has been injured doing a double front or a twist. However, does anybody speak about banning them ?

    Just let the FIG give it a correct value to the Produnova vault so that it doesn't allow a gymnast to win despite a fall (as they did with the Amanar after Maroney won silver with a crashed vault) and the problem will be solved.

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    1. Well, the difference is that you can have countless gymnasts breaking their knees on the Amanar without it being much of a big deal. A knee can be repaired in within a few months and a year later, the gymnast is back in full training again. A broken neck is another business entirely. You can be paralysed from neck down or from chest down... for life! I know that, fortunately, no gymnast has broken a neck yet on the Produnova, but watching these two gymnasts, I really feel it's an accident waiting to happen. And also I agree with the one of the first comments: rollout skills should be banned too. I don't think many gymnasts broke their necks on them apart from Mukhina, but all the same, they are dangerous.

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  8. Yes, ban it. It would not the first time an eponymous skill has been removed on safety grounds. Big skills cleanly performed are a thrill to watch but I am sure none of us wants to watch a young athlete sustaining a devastating injury live on TV. I'd be happy to know no-one had any need to try and land one in training either.

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